Strategic Plan 2018 - Happiness or Wisful Thinking

[sandw04]

The heck with this move the men's basketball team back into the city.  Let's just make it easy for 70 and play home games at the Sears Centre.

Come on, 70.  Start up the car (if the battery hasn't been run down) and take the wife to dinner and a game.  And quit complaining about the prices.  You dump your popcorn on everyone in the lower level anyway.

[DPU70]

Well, now that some of you have had some fun at my expense.  I'll give you my reasoning.

In the early 70's, a player by the name of Bill Robinzine came to DePaul.  And, paired up wit Al Burks, they started something new and novel at DePaul.  They were winning.  But there still were open seats in Alumni Hall, as mostly students went to games.

Then, came a player by the name of Corzine.  When coupled with Ron Norwood, the winning continued.

Our little (5300 seats) Alumni Hall, all of a sudden became crowded.  The environment was electric.  But, for the frst time in my history, games were attended by Alumni and fans, who greatly out numbered students.

This continues Through the Gary Garland/Curis Watkins era.  And, there wasn't a seat in the house.

Bring in a huge Chicago name of Aguire, and you all of a sudden could have held a lottery to get a ticket.  Follow that with Cummings and Grubs, and we were an item.

We were not only winning, but developing a growing fan base that out grew Alumni Hall.  The need for a larger venue was so apparent, that Al McGuire, broadcasting a game on National TV, confronted Coach Ray and told him to sieze this moment and plead for a larger Arena to be built.  Sheepishly, it was his way, Coach Ray ducked the question and blushed on TV.  Al pushed the issue and begged for Coach to publically ask for contributions toward an arena. Again, the Coach backed off.

But, it was apparent that DePaul could support a larger following, and the move to Rosemont happened.

Soon, we were playing to 14000 fans every game in the Horizon, and a few games topping 18000.  Fans came all over the Chicagoland area because the Horizon was more accessable then a drive into the City.  Face it, growth from 5000 seats to 14000 sold seats didn't come from students.  For the first time, Alumni and fans from the whole market were now able to see DePaul.  And, the move to the Horizon was synonymous with DePaul's success.

Recently, our teams have gone down hill.  There was conflictbetween the AD and the Coach.  Our recruiting suffered.  Play was far below par, and the fans disappeared, but not as noticeable ws the student dissappearance.  Now came the excuses.  The renamed Horizonto Allstate sucked.  It was too far for students.  The bus rides were horrible.  here was competition with the Bulls becoming Chicago's team.

but, all along, I have been of the opinion that our teams sucked.  We were no longer in the press.  We lost our brand.  You can't buy a DePaul sweatshirt at Dick's.  We were no longer on TV and we have to pay for radio broadcasts.  This was te result of bad administration and athletic management.  It was not the fault of the Allstate or where it was. but, it will take the blame.

So, now, we talk about an 'on cmpus' arena as the answer to all of our ills.  I laugh.  this alone won't make our team any better.  Oh, there may be an opportunity for recruiting.  I contend if you gve people a winner, recruits wil come and so will fans.

Recently, Syracuse played in front of 30000 fans at the Carrier Dome.  In the 80's, we played there in front of 30000.  We were part of the draw.  DePaul is coming in!!  Now, we're th patsyofhe league and have NO draw.

NO, this isn't a chicken or egg problem.  It's a failure.  A failure of a team and the administration.  Illinois can put 20000 fans in the United centr for a game.  We did it for a Duke game when we had Q.  It's the team, not the venue that brings in fans.  And, it's the team, not the venue that chases them away.  All other excuses are just that, excuses.

As an Alumnus, I see our failure as the failure of this administration and the team.  And, I certainly don't see the validty in gving a checkbook with $200 Mil to that same administration as the answer.

[BrianC]

You are certainly right...if DePaul puts a good team on the floor...the fans will fill the seats.  Now, how do we go about getting that team.

I was raised a DePaul fan (my mom grew up on Kenmore) and later graduated in '98. WGN played a key role in making DePaul a national brand.  Cable tv and ESPN along with the many factors you mentioned diminished the brand.  DePaul has not thrived as a university by standing still.  A lot has changed since I visited grandma's house in the 70's and 80's...heck, I don't recognize the place since I left in 1998.  Allstate arena is not getting any younger and no one younger than me can name a player from the 80's.  A near campus arena would breathe life into the program just like new facilities did for the university. 
The new commute to games would be longer, but i relish the chance to raise my 2 y/o a DePaul fan.

[sandw04]

Part of this is just evolution of the DePaul fan base.  It does indeed suck.  And you are correct about the Robinzine-Burks days.  Basketball games were almost mini-class reunions at Alumni Hall. 

But I don't see construction of an on-campus arena as an attempt to rejuvenate student interest.  I do believe it will and I do believe it will generate interest from alumni and from the local neighborhoods.  But foremost, it will give DePaul a nicer,  more complete campus.  This helps generate more donations.  Even though Lincoln Park NIMBYs will protest, a DePaul arena and a stronger DePaul University (both in athletics and academics) will generate higher home values.

I believe the $200-250M figure thrown out was a cost figure for land, reclamation, parking structures, and the arena.  Fullerton-Sheffield would be about half that figure as DePaul already owns most of the land and about half of the necessary parking is already in place, either on campus or with the 800+ parking deck across from Children's Memorial which is have mostly empty spots when the arena is completed.

Yep, after success came excuses.  Let's not make any excuses to get an on-campus arena in place.  Come on, 70, just buy a nearby condo, park the Caddy, walk to the Lincoln Park arena, cheer on the Demons and spill your popcorn like its the good old days.

[sandw04]

You are certainly right...if DePaul puts a good team on the floor...the fans will fill the seats.  Now, how do we go about getting that team.

I was raised a DePaul fan (my mom grew up on Kenmore) and later graduated in '98. WGN played a key role in making DePaul a national brand.  Cable tv and ESPN along with the many factors you mentioned diminished the brand.  DePaul has not thrived as a university by standing still.  A lot has changed since I visited grandma's house in the 70's and 80's...heck, I don't recognize the place since I left in 1998.  Allstate arena is not getting any younger and no one younger than me can name a player from the 80's.  A near campus arena would breathe life into the program just like new facilities did for the university. 
The new commute to games would be longer, but i relish the chance to raise my 2 y/o a DePaul fan.

Exactly.  Good points, BrianC.  You are talking about what this is all about.  Regenerating a new fan base.

[DPU70]

 Come on, 70, just buy a nearby condo, park the Caddy,

It's an Escalade.  Gets 16 mpg.  And, at Chicago gas prices of $4.50 per gal, that's another $9 plus parking.  As I get free parking at Alstate.

[sandw04]

Maybe you could car pool with TBD.  Geeze, with all the griping at least you could have an agreeable conversation.  Have a Happy Easter.

[underwhelming]

but, all along, I have been of the opinion that our teams sucked.  We were no longer in the press.  We lost our brand.  You can't buy a DePaul sweatshirt at Dick's.  We were no longer on TV and we have to pay for radio broadcasts.  This was te result of bad administration and athletic management.  It was not the fault of the Allstate or where it was. but, it will take the blame.

So, now, we talk about an 'on cmpus' arena as the answer to all of our ills.  I laugh.  this alone won't make our team any better.  Oh, there may be an opportunity for recruiting.  I contend if you gve people a winner, recruits wil come and so will fans.

NO, this isn't a chicken or egg problem.  It's a failure.  A failure of a team and the administration.  Illinois can put 20000 fans in the United centr for a game.  We did it for a Duke game when we had Q.  It's the team, not the venue that brings in fans.  And, it's the team, not the venue that chases them away.  All other excuses are just that, excuses.

As an Alumnus, I see our failure as the failure of this administration and the team.  And, I certainly don't see the validty in gving a checkbook with $200 Mil to that same administration as the answer.

Some great points in your post.  As much as on-campus or near-campus arena would be nice, there is so much more wrong with the program.

[Big Kid]

There is alot wrong w/ the Program, no doubt, but I think the consensus on this board is that an on-campus could be a game changer for this program.

[Demon2002]

DePaul's alumni services called me Friday at work to keep me posted on developments with the school.  We talked a bit and then they asked for a donation.  I said fine and they mentioned they would send me the materials in the mail to complete the transaction.  The pamphlet includes various departments, schools, and general funding tabs that one can select when donating.  I asked the person on the phone if there was an exploratory fund for a DePaul basketball arena as I would like to give a donation to the fund.  They said there was no such fund, and we discussed the need to have something similar that allows the school to move forward on this initiative and get alumni involved. 

They mentioned that after calling several people for donations, it was clear that people were asking questions about this potential university initiative.  Seems to me that select alumni and students know more about a one sentence phrase in the 2018 strategic plan than those in the alumni relations offices looking for donations.  DePaul not only needs to remedy this inconsistency quickly, but get some legs under the initiative to build an arena.  Do not lose momentum.  If there was an option to donate to this initiative, I'd be all over it. 

Funds went to the College of Commerce instead.  Maybe next time.

[Big Kid]

'02, at least feedback from and others has been pointing to that direction which has to help and tehy are hearing as they passed that along to you. They called the house phone last week and I have to get back to the person that left the message and ask the same question. It's like sands in an hour glass or pebbles in a jar, singularly they are not noticed but collectively they start to add up and force those around to take notice.

[Seyton]

The problem with DePaul is not where they play.  The problem with DePaul is that they don't win and the administration *appears* not to care - or if they do, they are horribly mismanaged. 

If playing on campus was truly important then why is McGrath only half full for the games played there?  DePaul is, more less, a commuter school.  While there are no doubt a faction of student fans, it's not like there is or will be a huge student following there.

The glory years of DePaul were supported mostly by adults and non-alumni ones at that.  The student following and promise thereof at DePaul is a myth - and that's not a knock against the students.  That's just how I read and have always read the situation.

For those of you dismissing DPU be careful.  My guess is that the vast majority of season ticket holders come from the suburbs.  No matter how hard it is for some suburbanites to get to All State it will be the much harder for them to get downtown.  Plus, there will no doubt be parking expenses which, if you're smart, you don't have to pay now.

All State sucks - there's no doubt about it.  But winning is the only thing that will solve DePaul's woes.

[sandw04]

Parking expenses:  1)  at All State are they $11?   2)  How much to park at the United Center?

[corbinnow]

Totally disagree Seyton.  How can you gauge a student following when we suck and we play in one of the worst facilities, 20 miles off campus?  I mean good lord. 

You cannot seriously gauge Student attendance by a couple of home games that are usually meaningless at an old hall or how students won't get on a bus to go to a dumpy place to watch a game.

Rosemont was slick in the 1980s.  Its a dump now and no one really wants to go play or view a game there.  If DPU is serious about their program they need their own facility and one that is close to campus.

[Big Kid]

The glory years of DePaul were supported mostly by adults and non-alumni ones at that.  The student following and promise thereof at DePaul is a myth - and that's not a knock against the students.  That's just how I read and have always read the situation.

Did you go to DePaul during this time frame to see the student turnout on campus? No you did not so you know none of what you write as the student attendance prior to AA was immnese and that comes form people I know who went there and that was a time when we were more commuter than today when we have 5x's the Student Housing we did back in the '70's. Were you around when the Q, Lance, Bobby team played their first home game at Alumni Hall? I was and I can say there was a HUGE student presence in that building that particular night. And tickets for that game were not part of the Season Ticket package, they had to be purchased separately. The place was packed to the gills including Ronnie Woo Woo for better or worse. Winning or the perception of winning (Q's team) as you say, will bring people into the city (as I saw first hand) just like it may bring people out to the north burbs.

The rub is that the Allstate Arena does not create any excitement for a potential prospect. Playing a game out in Rosemont and having to stay there the night before a game cannot really fire up our players or potential recruits. Now a sparkling new facility on or near where the main campus sits can do wonders to lure a potential, highly rated recruit. See, very rarely does a non-talented team do well (ie. winning). There is the occasional anomaly but not usually. Usually it takes talent to win and currently we are not raking in the level of talent that our conference mates or BCS conference peers are. Staying at the Allstate puts the staff at a disadvantage, give them a nice new place that the Demons will play in to go along with their reputations and brand of basketball and players that are currently showing interest will do more than that and sign LOI's. 

I guarantee that a new arena will pique ALOT of interest by alot of people. I for one would get back my season tickets if they did this and LP is a little harder for me to get to than AA even living on the SW side of the city. And Sand Man it is $20 for the UC so LP would probably be $15-$20 so not a significant uptick plus you ahve the added option of easier public tranportation that may help add bodies. I cannot see how anyone would not want this to happen for the good of the program.

[Seyton]

I maintain the following:

1)  AA attendance has never been driven by students.  Ever.  Even in the 80s.  It was an adult crowd even back then.  And yes, I went to games back then.

2)  DePaul needs to invest in facilities and the program in general - that is what will attract prospects.

3)  The location of those facilities, including an arena, will not make or break anything.

4)  I do not think you can argue that the product sucks therefore the students don't come - isn't that making my point?

In my opinion you win first.  It absolutely does not make a difference where you play if you're not winning or don't win.  If that is how you think you have it backwards.  Nobody doesn't go to DePaul games because AA sucks.  They don't go because DePaul sucks.

Again, these are just my opinions.  If you think otherwise that's fine with me. 

[Griffin11]

Recruiting is about building relationships.  I believe OP has done a decent job building relationships. The next thing is closing the deal and as much as some people on this board don't want to admit it facilities play a major role. 

AA can only be hurting the coaching staff.

Of course attendance isn't driven by the students @ DU. They have to invest 4 hours in every game.  The trip out to AA is brutal.

News flash it's not the 1980s.  Kids expect more these days.  They don't know what it's like not to have the Internet and they sure as hell don't want to drive an hour for a home game.

You need to understand what were up against.  Bring a kid to a game @ DPU then take him to Michigan St.  It's an uphill battle just based on facilities.

[Demon2002]

Griff has the nail directly on the head.  This is not the same market, not the same expectations, not the same era, and we need to operate in modern times and shed the old way of thinking.  DePaul must improve facilities... It's not about the argument win first or build first... it's about long term sustainability of the program and DePaul has been behind the times for 20 years and each progressive year, the facilities problem gets harder and harder to overcome.

College placement counselors know the research... kids make a decision about where to attend school within the first 20 minutes on campus.  Research supports the claim overwhelmingly.  Yes relationships, classwork, and the coach are important factors... but in the end it is about if the kid can see themselves living there, going to school there, and playing there.  It's about fit and how they view college in their head as they take in the physical environment.  A school can have everything a kid needs but if it doesn't fit into the visual world and expectations in their head (which for basketball players they likely think big arena, packed stands, campus atmosphere as that is what television promotes), they won't attend the school.

I promise you DePaul at a huge disadvantage as not only is the image of what playing college basketball in prospective player's heads not aligned with what DePaul can give them in terms of facilities (which their expectations are crafted by media), but there is no way DePaul can show a player the entire campus and atmosphere as it takes more than 20 minutes to drive from Lincoln Park to AA and it goes against the admissions process research.  What's the poor kid to think... Meet OP in Lincoln Park, see the small gym, then get in a car and drive 30 minutes out to the Meachum exit on 190 to head to Rosemont?  Perhaps get a double cheeseburger at McDonalds along the way?  The entire thing doesn't work for DePaul.

If market research for student admissions supports kids making a decision in the first 20 minutes, similar to a person walking into a house and just knowing that it is the one for them to buy, the facilities at DePaul put them a huge disadvantage in the hunt for most students.

Build a city arena... it is essential for long term success.

[sandw04]

Amen to that, 2002.

[Big Kid]

Amen x 2 Griff and 2002, I could not have said it better myself. When you bring a recruit in and have to drive him 45 minutes NW on a good day to show him where he will playing his "home" games, I am thinking it's not a Program seller. You show him a 12K seat arena near the campus and imagine him hearing 3K of his fellow students (a bit exaggeration but we're trying to sell) and his interest is piqued. The landscape has changed. Kids want to be part of an experience and winning will cure some of that but so will interest in the Program and that can be had by building something unique or at the very least our own or part of our own, whatever it takes. OP is recruiting with one hand tied behind his back IMO. I believe he can close on the right kids but the facility we play our home games in is an albatross.

As an aside, I work out in the west burbs and was talking with one of our younger guys that just came on board who lives off of the brown line stop and Belmont. He lives w/ 5 other guys that he went to the Ohio State who live in the Chi and said if we built an arena that would be awesome as they would go alot. They love sports and would be something easy to get to while economical. While I know we would lose a few of the few remaining fan base left that goes to games, a facility close by would attract newer fans due to the demographics of the surrounding areas. He also was complimentary of the LP campus and our AC as hima nd his buds ball there on occasion.