Penn State

[DPU70]

My concern is that the AD vacated his position very quickly.  That leads me to believe there is more to this.  Has he discreditied a plaintif?  Has he paid someone(s) off?  Did he have evidence or accusations that he passed off on?  His actions were too fast.  If it looks like a duck.....

Even if a plaintif has been bought off, hasn't a crime still been committed?

No, my finer is pointed at the AD, and Sandusky, not JoePa, as of yet.

We shall see if Joe knew more.  Right now, he knew of 1 incident.  And, there was no abuse witness in that one.

I've taken showers in public facilities, gyms, exercise buildings, pools, golf courses, and many others.  And, yes, there may have been underaged kids there at the same time.  Was there abuse, NO.  But, we were both in the same open area at the same time.

It's time to have those abused come forth.  Without them, you hae to go after the AD and follow the money trail.

And, just becase Cain put his hand on a reporter's thigh, and moved it up, and pulled her head toward his lap, doesn't constitute harrassment.
It may be a very forward approach.  But, once she said NO, he drove her home.  No crime was commited.

[Freshjive2103]

DPU70 - I am not sure if you are being sarcastic with the Cain comment, but if not, might I advise getting out of the 1950's and into the 2000's.

There were 40 supposed incidents with Sandusky - not going to believe that Paterno had almost no clue when it is about someone who is in your inner circle.

[DPU70]

No, the Cain incident was well repored on WGN radio, John Evans, I believe.  And, the concensus was the incident of the TV intern, as I paraphrased, did not constitute harrassment.

And, as a single digit person in the 1950's, I never heard of harrassment, until guys of your age incurred it.

The key word in your comment is supposedly.  Let those injured step forward.  I'll count them as they do.  Are there 40?  I don't know. 

I don't want supposed's.  I want accusations.  And, until there are, I can only point at the AD.  His departure smells like a duck.

[demonvet]

Here is a report from ESPN and Joes official statement of the 1 incident.
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7202768/if-allegations-true-did-penn-state-coach-joe-paterno-know-when
------------------
"As my grand jury testimony stated, I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators.
------------

This is the interpretation of the writer (as well as myself)

------------

In other words -- If True -- I didn't know anything. Once informed of something, I did the minimum: I kicked it up the chain, looked away and chose never to think of it again.

----------

It sounds like Jo Pa didn't bother to question the witness anymore in the details because, well he wanted to be in denial of the whole situation-but when you observe a kid visibly shaken when trying to tell you something, that should be a red flag that something very very very very very inappropriate happened, not just a grown man with a 10 year old taking a shower together.


Also, isn't 1 incident enough by law? It's not like, well it was only 1 molestation, but it doesn't become serious until about the 3rd or 4th molestation of a child.

[Hayes-Healy Superstar]

70... I always have respected your opinion, even when we are on differing sides of an argument.

But before you (or anyone else on this thread) continues to comment on this story..

I DEMAND everyone of you read the full 23 page, Grand Jury indictment, and then tell me how your opinion of the parties involved may have changed.

I can NOT imagine that the incidents in 1998 (Victim #6) and 2002 (Victim #2) did not come to the FULL attention of Joe Paterno.

But read it... its ugly and disturbing... but we aren't talking sunshine and rainbows here.

Hub Arkush said it best on the Score today (and I agreed with him)... Kill 'em all.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/07/sandusky-grand-jury-report/

Follow the link to the report... and READ IT!  Penn State as an institution defines scum.

[demonvet]

sorry Hayes, I couldn't read it, i made it to victim 1 and when it started to get graphic i couldnt continue. so how many were there?

anyways just heard joe pa is out as head coach.

[Hayes-Healy Superstar]

8 victims, more who were approached and associated with the victims. 

Vet, it's hard but you need to read the entire report to understand te failure of the University.  Total and complete.  And read victim 2 and 6, Joe fucking knew, that's why his ass had to be fired.

[corbinnow]

Its such a joke its even being discussed.  Anybody associated with this matter will be terminated.  Coaching wins doesn't matter.  Thiis a cover up of pedophila and rape.  Anything short of immediately reporting the crime is likely to be construed as a coverup of a crime.  Board of Trustees did what they had to do to protect Penn State.  They clearly made the right call.

[DPU70]

Thanks for the Grand Jury link.

I was reserving judgement until I had a firm understanding of the procedings.  That was enlightening, and disturbing at the same time.

Grand Jury Purjury is clearly present.  Not reporting to authorities regarding abuse of a minor was clear.  Not following up on concerns of parents is sinful.

There are more people to fall as some simply turned a blind eye or failed in their responsibility.

[Big Kid]

So much moral bankruptcy here I just want to throw up. Good riddance to all and legacies tarnished that deserve to be.

[Freshjive2103]

So the latest rumor is that the PA Attorney General has another thing coming shortly and it sounds like it is that Sandusky basically pimped out some of the kids from his foundation to some of the wealthier donors to his not-for-profit. Yep... just when you think it could get no worse, Penn State may have been giving access to a pedophile pimp.

[DPU70]

Thanks for prompting me to investigate the Paterno situation more, HHS.

After reading much, I have to conclude what the States Attorney says... There is no wrong doing, legally, found against JoePa.

Yes, he probably knew of the 1998 incident, although, he is not mentioned directly. And was directly told of the 2002 incident. 

But, the '98 incident was investigated by Campus Security, and Local authorities, and the District Attorney.  No legal wrong doing was discovered and the case was closed.  I do believe that this incident directly led to the decision to have Sandusky retire from service with the University.  But, although JoePa most likely knew of this event, and the investigation, he did nothing legally wrong.

The '02 incident occured after Sandusky had retired, and no longer in the employment of JoePa, the Athletic Department, or the University.  Even though JoePa was directly informed of the incident, he had no authority over it, and correctly, and legally, turned that information over to the appropriate School authorities to handle.  Again, JoePa acted legally and according to School Policy.

I also agree with the States Attorney that even though there was nothing illegal done by JoePa, Morally, there could have been more done.  So, where does JoePa stand between the objectivity of the legal matter, and the subjectivity of what morally should have been?

This is the issue the Trustees acted upon.  This is the moral dilemma that they felt was not reacted to appropriately, and the blame for that was placed on the Football Coach and the President for not handling the situation  and causing the University to suffer.

Joe certainly was not the decider to allow Sandusky continued access to facilities and showers after his retirement.  Joe certainly was not the decider to allow Sandusky to escort young boys into the facility, weight room, football games and other.  These were part of his retirement benefits that were accorded him by the Administration.

With the suspicion of wrong doing in the past, I cannot imagine why the Administration would to allow the identical circumstance to to be continued.

This goes beyond the school.  Where was Sandusky's wife, when he visited the boys in the Basement at night?  Where were the parents of these boys after a parent had already brought the authorities and School Security into an investigation.  Allegations are about as serious as fact when it comes to trusting the welfare of your children to another.

This is a sad case. 

[Hayes-Healy Superstar]

If you guys are up for more of a conspiracy read the account of the 'missing DA' from th 98 case and think who might benefit from this guy and his records disappearing http://m.deadspin.com/5857440/alleged-victims-mother-jerry-sandusky-admitted-it-to-my-face-13-years-ago

[DPU70]

Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly has not ruled out charges against Spanier.

Paterno is not a target of the criminal investigation, but the state police commissioner called his failure to contact police himself a lapse in "moral responsibility."

[DPU70]

Buzz calls it like it is

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/10/joe-paterno-and-penn-state-s-code-of-omerta-in-the-sex-abuse-scandal.html

[belle]

What a #$%@# mess.

I believe their will be much good coming out of the disaster, hopefully, many young children will be spared future abuse by sexual preditors. People will have learned from this, I hope the next time any adult is aware or becomes aware of any of this horrid activity they will not merely pass it up the chain, but take the initiate to inform the police.
No longer will this society look the other way.....

I hope...

[corbinnow]

I would actually rather have JLP than this fool.

There I said it!!!

I believe at the end of the day we will see a Settlement Agreement with Sandusky retiring to Emeritus Status based on the 1998 incident.  A true coverup.

[DPU70]

What a #$%@# mess.

I believe their will be much good coming out of the disaster, hopefully, many young children will be spared future abuse by sexual preditors. People will have learned from this, I hope the next time any adult is aware or becomes aware of any of this horrid activity they will not merely pass it up the chain, but take the initiate to inform the police.
No longer will this society look the other way.....

I hope...

Don't think this will happen, Belle.  Regardless, there is still a hierarchy in any organization and a protocal to follow.  The reason those people are higher up is that they are, or should be, better trained,and well versed in how to handle matters of this nature. 

There was a felony committed and you don't want details screwed up, or elaborated.  Just a change in words used or their tense could affect an  investigation.

In fact, many organizations have names and position titles of people on record who are the only ones authorized to speak with police or other civil authorities.

[belle]

Sounds too much like "I was just following orders", plausible deniabilty, etc., just BS and code words or phrases for someone not steping up and doing the right thing..

[Hayes-Healy Superstar]

Well jeopa has hired CRIMINAL attorney.  So obviously he thinks his ass will soon be in a sling.

And you can parse your argument all you want 70, you'll still be wrong.